Matthew Holt

Palin: Obama Health Plan “Evil”

Sarah-Palin-smile The strange plot of the national debate over health reform this took another twist over the weekend, after  (now suddenly ex- Alaska governor)  Sarah Palin posted a statement on her Facebook page on Friday denouncing the Obama administration’s plan to reshape the healthcare system as “downright evil.”

In a statement referencing Ronald Reagan and the economist Thomas Sowell, Palin warned of bureaucratic “death panels” that would decide “if my parents (or yours) or my baby with Down Syndrome” are “worthy of healthcare based on their level of productivity in society.”

The full text of the post:

“As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized
health care plan that the current administration is rushing through
Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we’re saying not just no,
but hell no.

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce
the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed
out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply
refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration
care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I
know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down
Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his
bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level
of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care.
Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human
rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care
discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the
president’s health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of
the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of
Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious
members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing
our health care system is a point of no return for government
interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path,
there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, “Government
programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau
is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth.”
Let’s stop and think and make our voices heard before it’s too late.

– Sarah Palin

Rep. Bachmann’s speech can be viewed here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CHBvKGmevI

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128 replies »

  1. Does anyone think that she actually believes this rhetoric? We have already had “panels” deciding whether we get healthcare coverage…T-H-E I-N-S-U-R-A-N-C-E C-O-M-P-A-N-I-E-S! Some people want whats best for all of our society, not just for themselves. The fact that somebody makes more money than another does not necessarily mean that they work harder, just as it should not mean that certain people should get better healthcare just because they are members of government,unions or large corporations.

  2. I was trying to Sign Obama’s health plan letter online, but it seems impossible to do that without donating money… I’m not opposing it, I’d like to sign it, but I don’t want to donate as I believe Govt. has trillions of money and I have very little.

  3. So, the Task Force put in place by our present administration suddenly changes its tune on mammograms and self examination…..saying that it results in too many unneccessary tests for false alarms…..what’s that you all were saying about how treatments and tests won’t be rationed?

  4. 107 PEOPLE DIE WORLDWIDE EACH MINUTE.
    THAT’S 153,000 DEATHS EVERY DAY.
    HOW GOOD OF HEALTH CARE YOU HAVE WILL
    MEAN NOTHING WHEN THAT DAY COMES FOR
    YOU TO BE AMONG THAT 153,000.
    ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN ON YOUR WAY TO
    HEAVEN…OR ARE YOU STILL BOUND FOR HELL?

  5. As a UK citizen I have listened to the likes of Sarah Palin criticise our own NHS. She is, in my view, an immoral disgrace preaching to morons of self interest. Here, if you have a cold or cancer, a headache or aids, you will receive life saving treatment immediately without question or credit card and I would pay triple taxes to safeguard it. The healthcare system in the US is an international disgrace. A culture is defined by the treatment it affords its most vulnerable citizens, and all I hear in this debate is how much more it will cost ‘me’. Americans are better than this.

  6. Conspiracy Theory
    Have you ever wondered how the Baucus healthcare plan got to where it stands right now? This M.D., J.D. believes, and I agree it’s out there, Baucus conspired with others in his party. So hear me out.
    Baucus commisurated with his gang of 6 to set out a road map for his healthcare vision . Yet, neither the Dems or the GOP supported his plan. Strange, don’t you think.? Good so far, right? No one support his plan and, yet, within 48 hours after he (Baucus) announced his “healthcare plan” the Dems embraced it with a multitude of amendments while repudiating each and every GOP amendment offered.
    I believe Baucus never thought for a minute the GOP would join in his plan, nor did he care. His arrogance precedes him. The Baucus plan simply provided a platform for Baucus to advance the “debate” while playing by the Senate Finance Committee rules and moving the proposed healthcare plan along. That’s exactly what he did. It is ow going to committee. Pretty smooth, don’t you think? This writer thinks so.
    Watch what happens now. It will go to committee, there will be some tweaking. The House will come around and take what they can get. After all the only thing missing is the public option and according to Obama, if you believe him, he will not sign a bill that contains a public option . . . . or will he?
    Big picture: The present Baucus plan is a nightmare. But beware, the Baucus plan can get worse and I predict it will. We will, certainly, soon find out how horrific it can get.

  7. Sarah P is spot on! She’s reasonable. The key to successful legislation is just that. Be reasonable
    The dems actions unwise and unreasonable and, likely, unconstitutional. So it looks like this healthcare issue will just play out over time.

  8. “One solution”
    Scrap the whole thing and provide a simple nominal plan to the indigent who cannot afford insurance or do not qualify for medicaid, thereby, making insurance affordible to them as a group. Or simply provide a medicaid like plan to those who fall between the cracks so everyone is covered.
    Under any circumstance, no one is denied care when they present to the emergency room) under EMTALA (a federal statute) with or without insurance so why all the nonsense and insane spending.
    Well, I guess Pelosi, Reid and Obama . . . .
    Be careful what you wish for.

  9. I have not yet read any one elses comments, so I am sorry if I am repeating anything.
    I was wondering what about people like me? I am homeless, and I live at a Job Corps school where I am getting trained in a new career so when I leave I should hopefully have a home. I have never had a job that payed over 300 dollars every two weeks and have never been on my own.
    What about people like me?
    People who can’t even afford the insurance ?
    If people cannot afford insurance, wouldn’t that mean that we cannot pay the fines either ?
    I understand that health care is very important being that this is the field that I am going into, but saying that you must have something or else… it’s not right. especially when it comes down to something that you have to pay for.
    These are tough times. In a time when people are trying to figure out what and how they feed their children every new day that comes to them, how do you expect people to be able to get insurance as well ?
    As the president I feel that he should have more sense than what he is showing, and care more for the american people. maybe he could free health care instead of forcing people to pay for it and then saying if we don’t that we have to pay fines.
    I just don’t see how this is right.
    To me it’s unethical and unmoral

  10. Dear President Obama,
    Please do not accept a bill that excludes a public option for health care. It is essential that we have a public option to keep the private insurance companies honest and competitive.
    Melodie Miller
    Voter

  11. I do not agree with 100 percent of any health care proposals so far. But one thing I believe in. If my country can spend a Trillion $ in Iraq and Afghanestan to promote freedom and Democracy (In Afghanestan maybe protecting national security)and sacrifice 45,000 lives of brave Americans, we can certainly spend one Trillion $ over 10 years to protect the people of this country. Isn’t the health of people a national security issue?

  12. Socialism does not work, read history.
    No one has the right to healthcare. Based on what philosophy? If one want’s health insurance they can purchase it. If they cannot afford it then they do not have the right to force someone else to pay, that is called tyranny, stealing via the government.
    People need to think about what they are asking for. Obama is a politician! He has never worked a day in his life. To give politicians power over healthcare is dangerous, immoral, and illegal.

  13. Sarah Palin is such a liar! For her to sit here and tell people she is all worried that her son who is on Downs sydrome wouldnt get the care that he is needed on the Democratic’s healthcare plan is such a bunch of bogus! My son is disabled as well, he has cerebral palsy. He was denied coverage in the state we live in because I made too much money according to the state income guidelines. I have a very small income and not the type of job which Sarah Palin has had or her husband. I’m sure if the state of Alaska, government run health insurance was based on income, she wouldnt qualify either! Government based health coverage is at this time, based on income! It was put in place for people who have low incomes, not high incomes. The people on it don’t always have coverage for everything nor do they always get to see a doctor of choice. This is because it is governement based. Most people on medical assistance dont care where they have to go to do the doctor because they cant afford it. They’d rather have it paid for them than receive a bill. The new plan is basically very similar than what is out there now. The only difference is that it won’t be income based, however it’s still free. So, maybe the rich people who have their own private insurance won’t need to use it but still have the option. Also, no matter what way you look at it, everyone will pay taxes just like they always have, it’s really no difference than now.

  14. The fact of the matter is that with so many other countries attempting to provide universal health insurance for its citizens and failing, you would think our government would learn something. Right at home we have states like Massachusetts and Oregon that have offered universal health insurance and are seeing massive deficits with no choice but to kick folks out of the program. Massachusetts recently had to force over 30,000 people out of their plan due to cost overruns. Additionally, are you telling me the White House isn’t considering so-called Death Panels like the one essentially in place in Oregon – we can’t pay for an expensive drug to keep you alive, but we’ll pay to have you commit suicide. If you believe in this kind of government control, then you are IN THE WRONG COUNTRY – LEAVE NOW!

  15. Oh Sarah, yes you are pretty hot. But that comment you made is the most fear mongering, ignorant thing to ever come out of her stupid piehole. And that says a lot. A genuine effort by some to try to help out millions struggling to get healthcare, as well as all of us that have it and could be screwed over by coverage denials any time that the insurance company decides they dont really want to pay. Absolutely shameful, I understand that people have concerns, we all do, but these kind of statements most notably from our ex-vp canditate/ex-alaska governor, are absolutely dispicable.

  16. Might makes right, survival of the fittest, and love your country or leave it sounds more like Satanism than Xianity.

  17. It is the paradox of the great Union that some of the so called freedoms that are championed, are in fact some of the heaviest shackles and obstacles to equality and freedom, unworthy of a great democratic state.
    Under the cover of sometimes religious, dogmatic arguments – or worse – by abusing the good word liberty, the cause of Freedom is used to protect horrible injustices and bigotry.
    Nobody can accuse the US of not taking its responsibility in the fight for democracy and freedom in the world. There would be no free western world without its contributions in two world wars and in the buildup of ruined societies in the afthermath.
    How is it, then, that this great nation will inflict on its society millions of suffering, barely literate masses, without health care protection worthy a name. How can this society have committed thousands of its failed children to fry in electric chairs and to this day kill its own citizens by bestial means. How can it allow guns on each street corner and claim this to be more or less a human rights issue, while the Columbines come in quick succession.
    And, how can it allow someone like Sarah Palin to get away with this sort of language, which can only appeal to the most populistic masses, the most basic, bigotted and uneducated minds? For those of us who admire and love the United States, this remains a constantly troubling thought.
    Give the ones that seek to change the wrongly established dogmas a chance. “See wrong and try to right it” is the word that EMK would have used.

  18. Wake up people, look around it’s happening in front of all of our eyes and some are to blind to see it!!! Sarah Palin is telling the truth. Read the fine print Obama is going to drive the United States down the drain! Would you like it when your parents or grandparents get old and they have no choice in healthcare? Or if you have a kid with a disorder or some kind of medical disease and you can’t get healthcare for them? I KNOW FOR A FACT I WOULDN’T WANT THAT FOR ANYONE!!!!! It’s like euthanizing a dog but, only this time they’re humans!!!!! that’s just cruel it’s like he’s trying to play God or something. If he keeps this up we’ll have no freedoms left at all.
    If you people want a socialism for government then move to another country! THIS IS AMERICA IF YOU DON’T LOVE IT THEN LEAVE! Stop trying to change what we fought so hard to get from Britain. We fought for freedom and we won it over bloody battles. And here we are and some of you want to give our freedom away!! I’m an American and i like my freedoms especially when it concerns my families or my life!

  19. I am Happy that Americans are now suffering and Begging for health care reform. Why? because back when Hilary Clinton was pushing for health care for each american in the 1980s , What did y’all do? You shot her down like a bird out of the sky saying that she was trying to promote a communist America. Well now you got a dying liberal america run by the multibillion dollar phamaceutical and insurance companies who are getting a Sick Glee from poor americas misery. Serves you right. thats Karma 101

  20. ny grandma lived to be 99 yrs of age. at 89 she came back from broke pelvis and 91 a gallbladder and 6 inches of her intestines removed. on this particular surgery 1of 4 in the group of doctors would say I think she is strong enough to come back kicking and she did from a 6 wk stay in hospital to be at her home of 60 yrs till she was 96 and the broke hip got her. she remained in a nursing home till 99 and 2 months . my question in at what point would she have stopped recieving healthcare

  21. I’m so glad I was born British and not American. I’d chose our so-called “Socialist” National Health Service over your ridiculously costly alternative any day of the week!

  22. I will never understand how republicans can spend so much time arguing for the life of an unborn child while at the same time arguing against feeding and providing healthcare for that child once it makes it into the world.

  23. Could not agree more Sarah! Less government is the best way. If Obama has his way, I quit!!! I enjoy working as an RN, but I’d rather clean gutters and windows, lay sod, shovel manure or put pickles in a jar than work as a nurse for Obama and his National Health sCare.
    Sincerely,
    – 1 RN

  24. Of course Sara Palin’s views would never be heard had she not been on the McCain ticket. So now this embarrassment of a politician with a sub-par intellect gets to espouse on the national stage and the insipid American media covers every word. She is promoting the tried and true Republican agenda to hinder or destroy any initiative the government tries to help the average citizen. Ask her to define “socialism” if you want a good laugh. God help this country if it continues to promote the views of fools like her.

  25. Republican, Democrat. Both sides of the same filthy coin. The New American Aristocrats. They make the rules, and needn’t abide by them.
    Republicans lie about: National Security, Individual Liberties, Supporting Small Business, One Nation Under God…
    Democrats Lie about: Public Safety, The Greater Good, We will Care for You, Lifting up the Downtrodden, Government Aid…
    Each side marshals it’s forces: Pro-Choice, Anti-Abortion, Union, Business, Gun Ban, Self-Protection. Each group a sure bet of voters and money. Each group marches where commanded.
    And you can say it’s our fault, and vote the bastards out. And you can say, you get what you vote for. But I didn’t see any other choices. Did you?

  26. Look, this is just overkill. Palin has given mixed-up op/eds since she started showing up in the national spotlight.
    Death panels: “elective (self-chosen) end of life decision counseling,” which sounds to me like if you feel like it, you can choose to speak with an actual health professional about how you would like to be treated as a potentially dying person. And your doctor could be paid to help you figure all this out. If this is a death panel, sign me up.
    As a 18-year type 1 diabetic, not having health insurance is scary. I was uninsured for about 4 yrs in college, and I scraped by because I worked at a summer camp for diabetics, and I worked 2 part-time and one full-time job while a student. I didn’t do anything to deserve my diabetes; this is what happened to me, and I’ve learned how to deal. Without health care, diabetes is expensive, and not all of us are wealthy white Americans.
    Anyone arguing against universal health coverage, at least BASIC health care, doesn’t get a number of important things. First, the government is already all up in our collective health business. Without the government passing legislation and approving how health care works, it wouldn’t be the way it is. The profits go to private companies, the approval has gone through our gov. Not to mention medicare…
    Second, if government control is what you’re really concerned about, why don’t you read the bill? See for yourself what’s actually in there. Believing blindly what anyone on any news show says is folly, because, as we know for a fact, everyone spins everything. There are some key deficiencies in the way health care reform has been portrayed in much of our larger corporate media, and there’s no getting around it. So read it for yourself.
    Third, no Christian, who actually believes in what the Bible has supposedly taught you, can argue against Universal Health care and have a soul. It’s just not possible. There’s no way you could look into a struggling middle-working class parent’s eyes and say what you continue to say on here and in the public open forums: “Health care reform is evil.” That’s just not something I can see anyone being able to do with a straight face. Working people need help in managing their health. Health care right now is not a fair fight. And to say that how much money you have should mean that you have better health care is really scary. That’s what scares me, and that’s what communism means to me: those with loads of cash get their way, and the populace gets the dirty leftovers.
    Get over yourselves.

  27. Why do people hate Palin? What are they afraid of? I wish she would run, I’d vote for her. What’s happen to this country in the way of values, morality, character and integrity? We have become a corrupt nation, God haters and lovers of self. We have opened the door to those who wish to destroy this nation because we refuse to put God first, abide by the laws in our Constitution and allow foreigners to change our laws. We’ve become weak, appologetic,corrupt from the top on down. We will fall because we are no longer united. Just call us states.

  28. Obama health care power grab is evil! Why are the Dems trying to push this health care so hard! Use your common sense folks. Why do you think the gov. can run health care? You are fools if you believe the gov. cares about you. Look how much this lying prez. has spent, double-talked and schemed. This is an evil admin. Bush wasn’t perfect but Obama is nothing more than a front man cause he is Black, so when people oppose him they are labeled racists. I’m Black and involved. I’ve been to T-Parties & others and the media and gov officials paint these people as un-American, terrorist etc. This admin. is a disgrace to the American Constitution.

  29. Interesting comments. Evil Health Care Systems, Death Panels, the goverment taking over everything, the right to healthcare, and the list goes on. It’s funny that you hear the same types of extermes on both sides of this arguement. Regardless of all the “talk” back and forth isn’t making some form of health care available to all Americans the right thing to do? I think so. I feel like I live in the greatest country in the world, and if that’s the case what type of message does it send that we have mothers, children, and the elderly without healthcare?
    Palin’s comments are unfortunate. In her arguement she jumps right from nationalized healthcare to death panels? How do you get there? So she is saying that she wants all of us to believe that elected officials are going to endorse a plan that would do something like this? In the format that she has described it. Really? I’m thinking that comment insluts my intelligence a little bit – just a bit.
    Secondly, I’m impressed that she would prefer her life and death decisions be influeced in our current system. By a corporation that has to consistently grow from a profitability perspective and add shareholder value. Which way are they more likely to decide – I’d bet they would kill you long before an elected bureaucrat would :).
    Finally, to her third supporting point regarding Ronald Reagan’s comment on goverment programs being around forever once created – is this really a bad thing? Interesting if you think about it. Would she then deduce that Homeland Security is bad, the TSA, Social Security, CIA, FBI? How about any branch of the military? Of course not, so once again, don’t tell me all goverment created programs are bad, or use it as a supporting point to call something evil. You can’t get there.
    Lastly, I love how she borders on the morality arguement with the death panel comments. Especially since she, a christian, supports not insuring children because they were born to a parent that can’t afford it. How do you do that? I wish I could and still sleep at night, but as it stands – I can’t.

  30. Is this Palin lady for real ?
    I’m so glad to live in Holland where we have healthcare for everybody. You pay a monthly premium of about 125 dollars,for basic coverage ( doctor’s visits, physical therapy, all operations, stay in the hospital, transportation costs etc ) .You can choose which company you want to use. If you want more ( special therapies, extra dental etc.) you get an extra package.
    The first 50 euro’s ( about 70 dollars) yearly for prescriptions, you have to pay. The rest is for the insurance company.
    Some downsides:
    – for certain ( non life threatening) operations there are waiting lists,
    – you cannot always choose the hosital yourself
    Some upsides:
    – affordable
    – doctors are on call 24 /7
    – rich and poor get the same basic care
    Maybe Palin should look elsewhere in the world and see how things can work before denying the US people healthcare with scare tactis

  31. President Obama, we are tired of the Whitehouse trying to sell us health care reform. You know, I know and the American people know this is really about more government power and control. Our biggest problem has become our government! Stop! Just stop all this nonsense! Do not treat U.S. like we are stupid, ignorant morons! Join U.S.!
    Do Not Sell Out “We the People” of the U.S.A.! We Trusted You!
    President Obama, great Presidents do Great things! They have great Honor and Integrity! We know you can do it! “We the People” know the truth! We want to hear it from you! Please join U.S.! Tell the American people the Truth! Confess! Americans are forgiving! We feel if this took place, a renewed Spirit of Patriotism could spread through our government! The American people have never lost our Spirit of Patriotism! We never will! Join U.S.!
    “Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder.” –George Washington
    President Obama, You owe nothing to the manipulators who bought your way into office. Those people only used you! Americans do not want to use you. People have been using you and lying to you all your life.
    You Have to Betray Them or Betray the U.S.A.! What’s Your Choice?
    Look at the people of the United States. We are real! We are good people! We are intelligent and can think! The elitist mind is really small and weak! The elitist people are selfish and twisted. We just want a President with Honor and Integrity. This is your big chance to become the Greatest President of all time! You need to lead our government by example, with Honor and Integrity! President Obama just do the right thing!
    Join “We the People” of the U.S.A.!
    “Experience has shown that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” -Thomas Jefferson
    President Obama:
    Can you stand on your own?
    Can you make your own decisions?
    Can you be a man of Honor and Integrity?
    If we have any other elected or appointed “public servant” leaders in our government who have any Honor or Integrity left inside them, they should come totally clean with “We the People”! If most of our leaders have any intestinal fortitude, then we should have a long line of them holding resignation papers in their hands or begging to ask our forgiveness! Do they no longer think they are accountable to U.S. and believe they can do whatever they please? They have developed a “spirit of insubordination” that has gotten way out of control! We no longer need employees working for us that practice malfeasance in office.
    We need laws stating that any Representative, Senator or President that has the audacity to sign any bill without reading it and fully understanding it should go immediately to jail without any bond? We must raise the bar of Integrity and Honor for our employees! Elected or appointed “public servants” need to achieve a much higher standard. How did it get so low? If they are found guilty, a 30 year minimum sentences would not be out of line! This complete lack of responsibility is a very serious issue! It’s totally scandalous, outrages and just plain wrong! It’s Criminal!
    We Must Never Again Allow Our Leaders to Have Unaccountable Trust! EVER!!!
    People are corruptible! We must always question and watch very closely everything they do! Our Freedom, Our beloved Constitution, Our National Sovereignty, “We the People” and the fact that we are a Constitutional Republic is why the United States of America is the Greatest Nation in the World! Any bad truths about our Country are the slow results of the corruptible human nature of a few individuals! Power and wealth can corrupt a person if not kept in check! After we fix our current problems, and we will, we must put in play many more “checks and balances”. We must figure out a way to completely take away the opportunity of corruption! Nothing personal – but “We the People” must always come first and be protected!
    http://www.tomdavidd.com/blog/
    “We can all commiserate forever about how bad things have been, are, and will continue to be. But I don’t think that we can afford to wait for elections in order to have our say about putting a stop to this madness. Enough, already! Let’s start talking treason, prison, and death penalties for all malefactors in government who subvert, ignore, skirt and otherwise trash the Constitution of these United States of America. Those who have sworn to uphold the Constitution and have then ignored their oaths of office are guilty of perjury and malfeasance in office.” -Stephen A. Langford (personal communication to this author)

  32. I’m a UK citizen so no doubt not qualified to comment. But being British, I am deeply offended at the rubbish about medicare and by extension our NHS being a Fascist and Nazi German idea. I can tell you the UK is NOT a Nazi state and our NHS has NOTHING to do with death panels, or euthanasia and is not anti-Christian.
    Perhaps you need to know your great hero Tony Blair actually came to power in 1997 on the promise to save the NHS! That should make you reassess these perverse lies you keep being told by right-wing commentators and politicians such as Palin. Perhaps you need to look at the big wide world and be a little less chauvinistic and ideological.

  33. I like debate as much as the next person but seriously lets put what she has said aside for just a moment and ask ourselves, “when has anything that the government taken over ever helped make anything better or didnt cost us in some way?” The answer to that is pretty obvious nothing they have done has ever went well or hasnt cost us alot!! Now to the healthcare debate itself. I would encourage all of you to actually READ the bill. You dont have to take her word or anyone elses word for it, just read what the government itself has put in the bill and make your own decision. What I am getting tired of is people making comments like “dont believe everything you hear”. Well I agree with that statement if you are not just hearing but have actually read the bill itself. The people in Congress that are going to be making these decisions, some of them havent even read it so who is believing everything they hear now?? As an American we have a RIGHT (at least last time I checked) to voice our opinions and that has been what Sarah Palin has done, and if you have READ the bill it is a little scary to say the least. We should be careful because like what was stated above once the government gets involved its almost impossible to get them out. I am all for health care reform but I dont think this is the way to go about it.

  34. we are the only industrialized country that does not provide health care for all of its citizens…why don’t we remedy that with single payer health care…we have become slaves to the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies

  35. You can still have private healthcare under this bill. The people in goverment who are against this bill are for the most part are in the pockets of the insurance companies. This should not be a debate about anything other than AFFORABLE healthcare for AMERICANS who need it. The extreme right want you to believe this is in someway socialism. Everyother major DEMORACY in the world has goverment run healthcare systems, many better than our own. My response is if these people are so much against socialist ideas and goverment aid, then they should send back their SOCIAL security checks when they come. WAKE UP PEOPLE> YES YES YES

  36. Push all the white wash aside and look at our government’s past record in the health care industry…the veterans administration health care program. As a veteran, we joked that for veterans, you could potentially give your life twice for the military, once in combat and if you made it past combat, again in the VA health program. These are / were our protectors that we put in this horrible joke on.
    If you are for this health care reform and you end up in a ward left to expire in your own body fluids with several others losing their minds and lives, then I say you might just deserve it.
    And before you respond and say not everyone had a bad experience in VA hospitals, your right. Those of rank and privilege were given far better treatment but you might just want that if you are rich and privileged.

  37. The country needs health care reform, but not a federal health care insurance program. We need to address the problems, not the symptoms. When the medical industry became “for profit”, health care become a business; and like all business, it must be and remain profitable.
    We, the consumer, have to sit up and recognize that we are a part of the rising cost of health care. We need to stop going to the emergency rooms for common colds and daily ailments. That being said, the health care industry needs to provide an avenue to first echelon health care. This may be the level where the government may want to step in and provide county, city and neighborhood health care clients. The problem is that there is little or no profit in first echelon clients, just liability. To get clients going, we need the old Family Practitioner back. Family Practitioners, as I remember them, birthed babies, set common fractures, stitched up minor cuts, gave shots and counseled on family issues. They were our personal medical care professional; making recommendations as to when we needed to go to the hospital and recommending medical specialists when required. To offset the cost of health care, we need this individual back.
    Frivolous lawsuits are also driving up the cost of health care. We need to prevent frivolous lawsuits against hospitals and health care workers. Somehow we need a mechanism in place that the plaintive must, at their own expense, prove probable cause for a liability suit. The medical associations and state medical boards need to set up and take on the responsibility of reviewing lawsuits and determine their viability. If it is determined that the actions on the part of the hospital or medical worker were within normal standard practice and under the circumstances the action taken was reasonable, then the lawsuit needs to be dismissed as frivolous. This has to all be set in place so that it is a no or low cost program to the hospitals and/or medical care workers. If the suit goes to court and the hospital or medical worker is found liable, there has to be some sort of a reasonable liability cap.
    We need state training and county hospitals that will take on the indigent and uninsured. What county hospitals can or cannot do for a patient has to be determined by the available tax revenue. The county residents have to recognize that the county may not be able to give a heart transplant to an 80 year old individual and that all they can do for this individual is to reduce their pain and suffering.
    The insurance companies need to setup and deny payment for redundant tests. They also need to make payments in a timely manner. Everyday that a billing is not paid, the hospital or doctor has to borrow that money for the services rendered. The doctors and hospitals have to build in the cost of borrowing money into the billing rates. So, the quicker they get paid, the more they can reduce their rates. Anything that the insurance companies can do to reduce the doctors and hospitals overhead by standardization and reduction of paper work will reduce their cost and again allow hospitals and doctors to reduce their rates. Maybe something like a medical credit card that pays the doctor directly for basic and standard procedures ie: checkups, shots and office visits. This would be directed more towards the Family Practitioner/clients than to hospitals.
    In conclusion, the help we need from the federal government is setting up county and neighborhood health clients, promoting the return of the Family Doctor, provide reasonable liability caps, standardization of insurance forms and regulation of insurance companies to expedite their payments to the medical industry.
    I am not a doctor or medical worker but business is business. When doing business becomes too expensive to compete, cut the overhead, not the quality of product and/or the services.

  38. the only industrial country without nation healthcare. hmmmm.. im willing to wait obamas full 8years for healthcare. this is the most fundamental right as a taxpaying citizen. i guess we have to wait til the republican america finds a way to gouge the governments kitty with companies that fraud everyone. maybe we have to wait til the gop has turned all its supporters into brainwashed retards. whatever the case may be, i want free healthcare for me and my family. this downright silly.
    HAS ANYONE NOTICED THAT PUBLIC OPINION IS NOW PAYD FOR BY THE REPUBLICAN PRIVATE SECTOR? ESPECIALLY IN THE RUAL AREAS WHERE THE INTERNET IS STILL A PUPPY.

  39. I am so sick of listening to you people bitching about the poor and the homeless dying due to the fact that they can not afford health insurance.
    No one in this country dies due to the lack of insurance, they die due to lacking the common sense to go to their local haspital and getting treatment.
    You can not be turned away from any hospital due to the lack of insurance. You must be treated.
    If you want socialize medical care move to Canada.

  40. This blog will not allow me to give my honest opinion, regarding the pharmaceutical industry and their connections to Congress as they have deleted my comments and have sent me an email stating that my DATA could not be accepted, the truth is always suppressed, shame on you.

  41. I also want the same health care that is being provided to all members of Congress For FREE, why is this okay for them to get free health care and the rest of the country have to pay $300-600 a month for it. I personally don’t have health care because I can’t afford it any longer the mortgage is my priority. That said I can’t even get my B/P, but I noticed that it is okay for 11 million illegals to obtain health care for free no questions ask. I needed to get my B/P refilled but the doctor visits was $105 dollar something I could not afford to pay, so I go without what kind of government lets an American Tax Payer take such a risk. As a country we go out of our way to help other nations and it appears we have forgotten about our own. Something is radically wrong with this system.

  42. I just don’t understand all these people who are crying about the new health care plan, folks the insurance companies are controlling your health care now, HMO won’t let you receive certain test without referral and approval by their medical board, the insurance companies also have a end of life clause in your policy, read it and weep. They are the one’s that have created the health care problem in this country because of their Greed. The only way to fix this problem is to get control of the Insurance companies. Two your employers change health provider all the time and you have to change doctors anyway, so again you are not in control of your health care your employer is. When you leave your employer you have only one choice and that is COBRA who charges you three times what you were originally paying, so again it is the insurance companies who are greedy. People who are at these town hall meetings complaining are being brain washed by the insurance lobbyist who attend these meeting to provoke fear in the elderly and small town folks who really don’t understand the health system their dealing with.The insurance companies are just as corrupt as are the pharmaceutical companies who pay incentives to doctors to promote their new drugs whether they work for you or not. I believe the insurance companies don’t want this to pass, because they will no longer be able to charge the fee’s that they currently charge. The way I see it the rich can afford any health care the poor and the illegals get medicaid and the middle class have no resolve. I am not a D/R, but an Independent and believe that the only thing we can do is to Reform the Insurance Industry.

  43. This is something that’s always been bugging me. Most of those who oppose health care reform call themselves Christians. I have asked and asked and asked people to give me a Bible verse that supports their point of view. I got nothing.
    Would Sarah Palin be so kind as to point me in the right direction? She should know.

  44. 1. We have national healthcare now it is called Medicare. I guess the Republicans want to eliminate it so I guess the Republicans will pull grandma’s plug.
    2. You do not have choice now!! My insurance company tells me who I see for medical care and whether they will approve it.
    3. the gov decides our healthcare now! Congress decides private medical issues for women not their doctors.
    4. The pro-life must be forced to pay a life tax for all the unwanted babies that come into the world. Pro-life wants all forms of birth control outlawed for religous reasons.
    5. Corporations should not supply medical insurance. Do they provide car insurance?
    6. Where was the noise about deficits the last 8 years?

  45. I am from England, and have been reading about Mrs Palin’s comments with mixed amusement (at her ignorance) and alarm (she can’t be serious?!). How can she say that a nationalised health care system like ours ‘rations’ care?
    The NHS has many flaws; it is too bureaucratic and a lot of money gets wasted in red tape mismanagement. This needs to be improved. However, the absolutely fundamental point is that when you need treatment, the service is absolutely second to none. It is not selective; it will not refuse to treat you if you don’t have the right insurance cover. If it is an emergency, you receive treatment usually within five minutes of making a call for an ambulance. Hardly a ‘death panel’. What, is she suggesting that the ambulance men might not treat an old lady? Or a sick child?! The idea is laughable in its inaccuracy!
    To suggest that having a baby with down’s syndrome would not get anything but the utmost level of care, medical attention and dignity is disgusting.
    The sick, the elderly and the disabled all have access to fully comprehensive health cover. I notice she does not consider the plight of the many Americans that cannot afford health cover as ‘vulnerable’.
    In Britain of course, we are immensely proud of the NHS. But as Americans, this psychotic woman is representing you on a national platform – how is that so? I have read many, many comments about “ignorant Americans believing this rubbish”. As a country, Palin, Bush and the likes have collectively made you seem like narrow minded, red neck yokels. As this is not true, as a proud nation, you really ought to not just say no, but hell no.

  46. I posted this yesterday on a different post, but respost here. This is but one example of how a National Health Service works for real people in the real world:
    “I’ve lived in three countries one without a National Health Service (the USA) and two with National Health Services (Germany and currently Britain). In Germany I was in a serious road traffic accident which put me in hospital for 2 months and intensive physio therapy to 18 months. The care was world class. I had a dedicated team of specialists that saved my leg, today I don’t even limp. It cost me nothing. I am convinced that if this accident had happened in the USA I would be an amputee and my family would have gone bankrupt. I was an artist at the time and paying into the German health service based on my income. I could not have afforded private health insurance. I am forever grateful to this system.
    I now live in the UK. While I think the German system is more efficient, the NHS in Britain works for most people most of the time. I was recently offered private health care for a hefty monthly premium, which I was very happy to be able to turn down. The NHS provides an excellent level of care and is constantly being improved.
    I hope that one day in the USA doctors will be able to care for all US citizens and I believe that Americans are capable of creating the best National Health Service on the planet. ”
    Sarah Palin sounds insane.
    We live in families, communities, towns, cities, counties, states and countries. We are human and as such we need to club together for our survival and to to create quality lives. Taxes and National Health Care are part of this. We are not here to just take care of ourselves and our own and nobody else. It simply doesn’t work that way. This has nothing to do with socialism. It has to do with being part of the human race.

  47. Has Obama said how much a month this “Health Insurance” is going to cost a married couple a month or even every 2 weeks?? He has an 1100 pages on this and someone should know the cost!!

  48. I have wonderful healthcare. My husband is retired military. no one in our country should be without it. I am certain that Sara has great healthcare. Don’t let the fat cats scare you out of what you deserve. The money tells the story.

  49. After listening to her make one blunder after another, it doesn’t surprise me that she makes such comments.
    On the other hand though, I understand that she has to keep the ‘news’ on her by making remarks every now and then so she’ll still be in the public eye by the time the next elections come.

  50. Nate,
    It is implicit if you ask Canadians or Brits about health-care costs that you’re talking about taxes. They’re very well aware that their excellent health-care system is not free. They’re not morons. I do imagine that a substantial number of healthy young people in these countries, being grotesquely self-centered and suffering from delusions of invincibility, resent the tax burden. But when they do get sick or old, I doubt that you’ll find very many who will voluntarily sell their homes and empty their savings accounts to pay for their medical care, as you or I in the U.S. will be privileged to do if we get sick.

  51. Just in case she happens to be reading these comments I have a question for Alaska’s former governor Sarah Palin….. Do you honestly believe what you are saying or are you just trying to scare people to death? Do you take the time to think before your speak or do you just like hearing yourself talk, even though the things that come out of your mouth are so false? Are you jaded because you didn’t win and people voted for a man with African-American roots? Are people paying you to say these things? Tell the American people the truth, so we can get back to living our lives. Thank you.

  52. Question? If the Bush administration had tried to reform healthcare in the eight years that they were in power, do you think that we would be having the same kind of problems that we are having now with the town hall meetings getting out of control? Would Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh be spreading their vicious lies, saying that George W. Bush is trying to “kill old people”? Just curious.

  53. Gee Nate, it’s a wonder Britons have any money left to spend on anything. I actually think I referenced income tax as was Del S. And don’t forget the rates are on taxable income – after deductions. From your Daily Mail link it also appears that middle income earners are the ones being hit the hardest, as is here, but it states; “the proportion of the nation’s income taken by the Government in tax – shot up by 1.2 per cent to 37.2 per cent, it showed.” I believe that would be ALL taxes, not just income. As I said, at least they get healthcare as well for taxes.
    You also may want to know look a little closer at National insurance rates (another of your links)and what they buy:
    “National Insurance Rates
    The following amounts apply for the 2009-10 tax year:
    If you’re employed
    if you earn above £110 a week (the ‘earnings threshold’) and up to £844 per week you pay 11 per cent of this amount as ‘Class 1′ NICs
    you also pay one per cent of earnings above £844 a week as Class 1 NICs
    you will pay a lower amount as an employee if you are a member of your employer’s contracted out pension scheme”
    Benefits from paying:
    “Your entitlement to the following benefits and/or the amount you can get will depend on your (or in some cases your spouse or civil partner’s) NIC contributions:
    Contribution based Jobseeker’s Allowance (Class 1 NICs only)
    Incapacity Benefit (if you can’t work for long periods due to illness or injury)
    Contribution based Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
    State Pension
    additional State Pension (Class 1 NICs only)
    Widowed Parents’ Allowance
    Bereavement Allowance
    Bereavement Payment

  54. you can probably do the same.
    Sadly no I can’t mandate they bill me electronically, I’m not a public plan with legislative power, not that a public plan would ever have an unfair advantage. Actually the payors “data format” doesn’t matter. A provider can send any ole EDI compliant sata set they want and the payor is legally obligated to accept it. Some states require by law we not only take claims in just about any paper format the provider decices but have a set number of days to read it and process it.

  55. Peter,
    good catch but I don’t buy your conclusion;
    “Of the 24 major countries considered in the OECD study, only the United States and Iceland saw bigger increases in the weight of taxation last year. But the overall burden in both of those economies remains significantly lower than here.
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-409957/UK-tax-burden-rising-fastest-rate-Europe.html#ixzz0O2TqvZNN
    Your comparing the taxes of a business to those of an individual. Not really an accurate start.
    PETER you forgot the 15%(temp 17.5 usually) VAT. 15% plus your 40% and we are at 55% and still not facgtoring in the difference between business and individual.
    PETER PETER you forgot to add on the National Insurance rates and premiums!
    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/nic.htm
    PETER PETER PETER you left out the local taxes in the UK.
    I’m starting to think you didn’t research you comment very well for thinking you finally got me after all this time. Keep the dream alive I’m bound to slip up sooner or later.

  56. but Canadians and the British are considerably more satisfied with the costs.
    I hope any study you read in regards to cost satisfaction is followed by one with satisfaction of tax rates, it is the only way to get an accurate view

  57. Does anyone know of a recent survey comparing the levels of satisfaction, with regard to their health care systems, of people in the U.S., Canada, and Great Britain. I found a Gallup poll (link below) from 2003 that indicates that the citizens of all three countries are roughly equally satisfied with the quality of their health care, but Canadians and the British are considerably more satisfied with the costs. I’d be curious to see similar data, if anyone knows of any.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx

  58. The strength and greatness of our country depends on the strength of each and every individual. We cannot afford to leave so many people behind when it comes to healthcare in the United States. We need some kind of health care reform and we need it soon.
    As part of health care reform, we also need to educate people early on to take some control over their own health. I volunteer at a free clinic where most of the patients are in the age range of 40-65. I estimate that 80-90% of these patients have serious health problems such as diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure,asthma etc. Unfortunately, most of them do not seek medical care until they are very ill with these conditions. We need to teach all Americans what can be done in our 20s and 30s to prevent these health problems from developing, and to provide the resources to help people live healthier lives and make healthier choices in their lives. Health care reform must include education and prevention; it must include coverage for well-person check-ups, not just healing the sick.
    There are those who argue against health care reform because it is too expensive. I argue that it will be too expensive to not reform our health care system. For those who argue that health care reform is socialist: how many of you want to get rid of Medicare and Medicaid? For that matter, would you want to get rid of free public education—something that we take for granted in this country? I doubt it. While none of these institutions are perfect, Americans are a lot better off having Medicare, Medicaid and free public education that we would be without them. The health care reform bill may not be perfect, but we need to work together to make it better so that it meets the needs of all Americans. The scare tactics that I read are ridiculous and are doing more harm than good. It’s time we all learn what this bill is about so that we can make more informed decisions about it. Read about it; don’t just listen to the fear mongers out there. This is one of the responsibilities of living in a democracy!

  59. universal health care would be a great idea, providing you can trust the implementer of the plan. I am almost sure this will be the Public Health Service. Here is a link that might shed a little light on the past preformance of the P.H.S.
    http://www.tuskegee.edu/Global/Story.asp?s=1207586
    now if you think this is a one time deal read this link.www.wanttoknow.info/050626mkultra
    after reding about this , you could not pay me enough to go take a free flu shot. I think it has something to do with not trusting the government.

  60. By the way, MD as Hell, do you really mean this? If you look up the definition for “mad” in the Webster dictionary, it will tell you that “mad” (as your sign off implies), when used as an adjective as you use it, means “disordered in intellect; insane”. If you go to http://www.dictionary.com, it defines the adjective “mad” as “mentally disturbed; deranged; insane; demented”.
    Perhaps you meant “Angry” as hell.

  61. Nate wrote:
    “Cost to me = nothing
    What is your effective tax rate betti? You are paying for it just in taxes instead of premium.”
    Well Nate if you read what Del S wrote:
    “I live in the U.S., self-employed, and buy my own health insurance to the tune of over $500/month…in addition to paying Federal & State income tax, Medicare tax, and sales tax. All those taxes constitute well over half of my income. That’s right, more than 50% of what I make goes to the government and to pay for my own health care. In addition, I still have co-pays for both services and drugs, and am still left with out of pocket expenses that my private insurance simply won’t cover.”
    And looked at the tax rates for England:
    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/tax/income_tax_rates.htm
    Seems they get a better deal and healthcare as well.

  62. Typically, people are adverse to change. I have to admit I join those ranks. I lost my job last June as the position was eliminated. I am 54 years old, and this is the first time in my life I have had to face this challenge. Terrified does not even begin to describe the trauma this inflicted upon me and my family.
    Alas, my fear of change was unfounded. I have found new employment that will actually be a better fit from my past position. It is also closer to home.
    Sometimes change is good for us. It can better us in many ways, and it can keep us flexible for future challenges. I work with children. These individuals have no idea how I lean politically, whether left or right. I tell them to watch the news, read the newspapers and read the magazines and articles that support to BOTH side of the political arena, then decide on their own path for themselves.
    We cannot let fear paralyze us. We must face challenge with dignity and with the hope for a better tomorrow.
    Now, all of you who are reading… go out there and look for the positive in somebody or something today and share that with them. We hear so much negativity every where we go today. You won’t believe how your positive outlook will improve not only your benefactor’s day, but it will also improve yours. I challenge you to try it, even if just once.

  63. I’m English and 56 years old. I have lived under our National Health System all my life. Calling it socialism is crazy; Britain is not a socialist country. It is about the welfare of all its people, not just the lucky rich. You are hearing that our NHS doesn’t work – well it does, but like every large organisation it has its faults and some mistakes do get made. But, please believe me, a system like the NHS is a basic part of a decent civilisation. Who is your country for? Is it just the well-off or is it for all your citizens? Plenty of you work very hard and earn very little. Why the hell should your life and well-being not be as important as that of a New York banker? Why are so many of you so scared of all this – this is what your people need.
    Arno Brooks
    York, England

  64. “Just read what really happens in the case of higher costs like in England.”
    “This article appeared on cato.org on September 23, 1996.”
    Little out of date Sam.
    “Rationing, already extensive, is increasing.”
    “The same problem is besetting the American health care system. The vast majority of American health care is not directly paid for by the person consuming those goods and services. Instead, a third party, either the government or an insurance company, pays the bill.”
    Actually Michael Tanner’s solution is also RATIONING, just a different form.
    It seems Europe can still do it for about 1/2 the cost.
    See this link from Fox News (I figured you might read something not from a liberal news source)
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html
    Seems despite the 1996 article in CATO at least in 2004 Europeans still had good satisfaction in their system over Americans in theirs.
    I’m interested to know Sam where you get your healthcare coverage from?

  65. If you are against any form of socialized public assistance you better hope you 1) don’t get terribly sick or injured, 2) don’t lose your job, 3) don’t get old, 4) don’t become injured or sick due to military exposures, 5) don’t bring a less-than-perfect child into this world.
    Where do we place the limits? Who are we to look the other way when so often, deep down, we know “it” just as easily could have been us who now suffers from such challenge? Most of us will face adversity in our lives, typically brought on by circumstance rather than not exercising prudent lifestyle measures. But for the grace of God go any of us. Why should we, as a society, force these folks to endure even more hardship than they already face?

  66. If you are against any kind of health care reform, you must be 1) wealthy, 2) uninformed, 3) childless.
    For 30 years my family was frugal and responsible in living within our means while also saving for our children’s college education. Through our savings, the children’s employment (both prior to and during school), and loans (both parent and child) we made it through those challenging college years. However, once our children graduated, they no longer qualified for dependent health coverage. Facing difficult economic times did not help these children when searching for post-graduation employment. As a result, we had the choice to either have them not covered for health care or to elect to exercise COBRA benefits.
    Our youngest child graduated from a four-year program in three years! All of the others have experienced similar success. These children are not slackers. However, at just 21 years of age, we had to “find” $500 every month in order to provide our youngest with health coverage. This came at a time when our college savings were gone. We landed up tapping into our home’s equity and our retirement benefits. It was a good thing we did, too. This child suffered injuries due to an accident during that time.
    These children are all very motivated young people. All graduated from high school and college with honors, and all earned scholarships to assist them with college expenses. If we faced these types of challenges, every middle class family will face these types of challenges. This whole mess has affected our ability to care for ourselves when we some day retire as we do not have enough time before retirment to recoup from our losses.
    My husband has worked in the insurance industry for 32 years! In spite of this, we implore you to consider the needs of every middle-income family in America and support health care reform. For those of you who do not support any form of socialized benefits, please do not take advantage of medicare, medicaid, veterans health coverage and unemployment insurance!

  67. What happened to Obama’s campaign promise about calling all the experts in Health Care together to come up with a plan for reform? Do those politicians, who, in fact, did not even read this legislation let alone write it, qualify as experts?
    Why is this movement to legislate health care reform being rammed through so quickly. Is it to foster the political agenda of the current administration, rather than effect a reform that addresses the real needs of the people? It seems so.
    Neither party has cooperated in a full collaborative effort to address thoughtfully all of the complex issues of health care reform. As usual who pays the price of their inept actions? Of course, the people pay. This time not only will the people pay with their hard earned dollars, they will also pay with their lives and with the lives of their loved ones. Remember, illness does not discriminate, it is the great equalizer. You are not exempt from illness and who decides your worth?
    This is probably one of the most serious crossroads that we have as a country ever crossed. What will become of us as a people? Will it be survival of the most fit? Will we become truly a utilitarian society without compassion? Will the disabled and elderly be cast aside? When saving just one person is considered too costly, this country has lost ALL of its liberty. Today, we have a system that at least in some respects (not totally) through Medicare and Medicaid, addresses the needs of the vulnerable. Tomorrow, who knows? Medicare and Medicaid are running out of money. So, shall we throw out the baby with the bath water?
    It is true. Rationing does exist today by insurance companies, but today all living beings are equal in the eyes of our government. Not so with this new legislation, it will inevitably lead to even greater rationing and to government controlled decisions about human equality. Maybe little Johnny will get his new glasses free, but little Mary who has cancer will be turned away. Her health care is too expensive. Or, old Mrs. Thomas gets free rides to the clinic, but Mrs. Smith, mother of two young children, will not be able to get dialysis. Good by America as you know it today!
    And, if you believe the insurance companies will not get rich. THINK AGAIN, they’ll find a way (the government WILL help them) as they are so ingrained in our financial system that THEY will be saved!
    Remember Americans, now is the time that all good legislators have decided come to the aid of their Parties. You don’t count. If you think your elected officials are thinking about your health care, think again. This is all about winning for them. All they are interested in is your vote; your health does not count, so it is up to us to express your opinion and our desire for honest, thoughtful health care reform for all.
    Yes, to health care reform, but No, to shoving just any old legislation down our throats for expeditiously political reasons. Let us reform our health care system ethically, thoughtfully issue by issue and seek to do it so that all the people benefit,not specific political nor ideological agendum. It is our lives we are talking about and the lives of our children and grandchildren.
    If you are passionate about how everyone has a right to good health care, or concerned that you will lose the health care you now enjoy, then READ CAREFULLY the reform being proposed by our legislators AND president. If you do not understand it, call them and tell them not to vote for it or they will lose your vote! TELL THEM TO TAKE THEIR TIME AND TO WORK HARD ON A THOUGHTFUL REFORM.
    This is a mess, but its our mess. So, we need to make sure that “We the people” get involved.
    This health care reform legislation is a turning point in American History. It will forever change how our citizens care for the sick and vulnerable. Consider this, not the rhetoric of any politician of either party. Talk to your doctor, talk to your insurance agent, talk to the sick, the elderly, the chronically ill. Talk to the pharmacist, talk to your nurse, talk to your average health care worker, the emergency tech. (If you don’t know any of these types, you have not been sick..good for you! You better stay well!)
    FINALLY, talk to your legislator and tell them not to rush this plan through, rather to study the issues and prepare new legislation doing so thoughtfully and deliberately for at least one entire year with the expert. DEMAND honest, simple, clearly written legislation that every person can understand. We can make sure this is done right, we’ve waited this long, another year is not too long.
    Do not get embroiled in politics, get informed and involved in honest deliberation about our health care and our future as a nation.
    If you do this, America will thank you today and tomorrow! You may one day even thank yourself.

  68. I think people are making a serious mistake when assume that everyone who raises lowered care for the disabled or elderly as worries as being products of the GOP or right-wing. I spent two years working on end-of-life legislation changes in state government. I saw disabled activists who told me — to my face — that they feared that there were doctors who wanted to let disabled people die because of their low “quality of life”. This rather shocking sentiment was not coming from rank-and-file members or the fringe of the group — it was coming from the leadership of some prominent disability rights groups. These were not right-wingers, but leftists who drew support from Democrat elected officials.
    This is what these folks believed, for better or worse, and it drove their stands on end of life issues. Nothing I could say would change their minds, either.
    I learned that there are a lot of people out there who distrust both the government and the medical system when it comes to care for the disabled and the terminally ill. This fear is real and it is not confined to Sarah Palin. Discount her, if you will, but understand she is saying things that a number of disability activists are likely applauding (right or wrong).

  69. Nate, Medicare won’t take paper, HCFA or otherwise, you can probably do the same.
    And BTW, Joe, the forms now are CMS 1500 and UB04 and while it helps to have the forms and the X12 EDI equivalent format, the data elements’ placement still differs between payers. There are hundreds and hundreds of “payer edits” because no two insurers want the same exact format and the whole mess varies by state too.
    If we just standardized that, providers would save, in my estimation, about 5% on their net collections and I’m sure payers would save quite a bit too, so we could lower the cost of care somewhat.
    Maybe enough to ward off the “death panels” for a little while……

  70. My take on health care policy has generally placed it’s foothold in support of social justice; a system which recognizes a true, yet often overlooked, facet of basic human rights. We are in a time where a socialist frame of mind could benefit even the most democratic nation in the world. After all it is stepping outside of our box and breaking down the walls of rigidity which leads to innovation and progress. Often political cartoons and various forms of talk shows or banter afford a misconstrued image a universal healthcare system. The negative connotations often associated with old world communism are merely rhetoric of a body of individuals with an invalid conclusion of a desperate situation; negative efforts have gone as far as warning society of becoming like the “Canadians”, a prejudicial statement that is derogatory towards a sister nation of ours. Lack of healthcare is a number one concern of citizens who are sitting in the economic sub-middle class, not a plague greatly suffered by those beyond a blue collar. However, I have always felt that distant observation often times will hinder a blurred perception; those who have not feared the security of their medical attention seem to lack a sense of empathy for the less fortunate. Please do not be so selfish as to ignore the need of human beings in an attempt to see your own wanting of rugged individualism. In this global society an “only the strong survive” mentality should be place on our body of Americans as a whole and not as individuals. Yet I do not support giving free rides to those who refuse to help themselves. I believe that a system which holds people liable must be instilled within the masses. Calling for nutritional regulations, punishing the food service industry…these are all means of lifting responsibility from ourselves and this is a very dangerous path to pursue. Disabled, elderly, women with children under the age of eight-teen, and children should never be left without access to healthcare; these people are at a disadvantage to others when it comes to attaining income and securing insurance. Those who fall outside of the afore mentioned criteria must be held at a sense of accountability. If no effort is shown by an un-qualified individual after a set period of time then at that point there medical access should be restricted to emergency purpose and procedure only. I am making a proposal that may be far from revolutionary but is definitely within the lines of an evolutionary process. A system of restricted universal healthcare helps foster a much needed sense of accountability while serving social justice.

  71. I live in the U.S., self-employed, and buy my own health insurance to the tune of over $500/month…in addition to paying Federal & State income tax, Medicare tax, and sales tax. All those taxes constitute well over half of my income. That’s right, more than 50% of what I make goes to the government and to pay for my own health care. In addition, I still have co-pays for both services and drugs, and am still left with out of pocket expenses that my private insurance simply won’t cover. I am not at all happy with our multi-payer system. It’s broken and in need of major repair. Don’t listen to all the hype and the naysayers, rather read the bills for yourselves, and check the facts at a non-partisan site for the real answers. Factcheck.org and Politifact.com are two very reliable sources to clear up some of this confusion.

  72. Cost to me = nothing
    What is your effective tax rate betti? You are paying for it just in taxes instead of premium.
    We need to mandate providers use EDI or at least UB and HCFA, we still get handwritten claim forms from providers they make up themselves.
    As a payor we are required by law to accept EDI, providers for some reason were not required to use it, makes you wonder why Congress had us blow millions to set it up.

  73. I live under National Health Service. I would just like to address some inaccuracies swilling round about our system.
    If I need to see my Doctor I ring up in the morning and possibly see him that day or definately see one of the other Doctor’s in the practice that day.
    Cost to me = possibly one prescription charge around £7
    When I fell over in platforms and virtually knocked myself out (not clever). I was taken to A&E checked, x-rayed and kept in for 2 nights
    Cost to me = nothing
    If I ever need my hip replacing I will have to wait. If you don’t have a paying system healthcare is rationed by time and a wait will be involved. But they have come down a lot in the past few years.
    If I have a heart attack I will be treated immediatly and at no cost to me.
    I like a system where I am cared for and I care for others. I think that is called a civilised society.
    Our NHS isn’t perfect but it is about a million times better than what went before. There is some nice archive footage of what went before 1949 which they showed to celebrate 60 years of the NHS. They very graphically showed what measures patients were taking to treat themselves and why Doctors were very quickly converted to the cause.

  74. It’s all part of an elaborate conspiracy:
    Sabotaging town hall meetings, dirty media campaign with misleading information and downright untruthful statements, etc.
    But guess what? They have no follow-up plan.
    So they are bound for imminent and catostrophic failure.
    But that’s OK, they are already used to that, aren’t they?

  75. Actuary,
    I’m not sure if you are an actual Actuary, but I have to comment on one of your points.
    “2) insurance claim reform – let us have some standardization so providers don’t have to spend Billions sorting through the various forms.”
    We have had standard claims forms for at least the 20 years that I have worked in Health Insurance and I believe quite a bit longer than that.
    The UB-82 form was used to bill hospital claims when I started my career in insurance in the late 80’s and that was amended to the UB-92 standard form in the 90’s.
    The HCFA 1500 was the standard form to bill physician claims, I believe it has been updated but I can’t remember the form number.
    The billing diagnosis codes ICD-9 for over 20 years are currently being updated to ICD-10 at a cost of billions to the industry. HIPAA also created a variety of standards for how electronic claims are transmitted.
    Mandatory provider identification numbers were created to eliminate redundancies and confusion in billing.
    There are many problems associated with the health care system, but the availability of standard forms for filing claims is not among them, and has not been among them for many years.
    Keep looking for low hanging fruit. This aint it.

  76. Yeah, I agree with xyz. Get government out of the military! People need to take more personal responsibility. If you can’t organise a militia or handle a bayonet, well, hope your Chinese is pretty good.

  77. Maybe she realizes that her son may not be allowed to live to continue with that insurance if he is deemed unproductive to society, whose choice should that be??

  78. I think the government should also stay out of our military, we have a right to protect ourselves and choose our own battles. Those who can’t, well they’ll just die.
    Sounds fair to me. Besides the expense is too great with the government running it.

  79. Does Sarah Palin realize that because her son has Down Syndrome, he is more likely to end up with certain health conditions such as heart problems which will make it very difficult or impossible to get health insurance once he is old enough to go off Sarah Palin’s plan? Is that also evil?

  80. Providers should only have three forms: cash, check, credit/debit card. The beneficiary should have to deal with the insurance company. If that were tha case, an entirely different industry would arise to compete with ease of use. In fact if patients had to deal with insurance there would be far fewer lift chairs and scooters sold.
    Capping awards is not tort reform. Most cases that result in payment are settled for less than the cap in the first place. To my knowledge there has never been meaningful tort reform, which would have to change the expert witness qualifications and the jury qualifications. As it is now, a jury of lay people determine standards of care with each verdict. A total hodge-podge of standards therefore drive defensive medicine costs to levels not measured.

  81. “anybody care to comment?”
    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/jlanders/stories/DN-Landers_21bus.State.Edition1.9be351.html
    Tort reform won’t even make a dent in cost control – for premium payers, it does of course help insurance companies and doctors. Actuary, show me where tort reform has reduced healthcare costs.
    “2) insurance claim reform – let us have some standardization so providers don’t have to spend Billions sorting through the various forms.”
    That would mean government regulation over heath insurers – is that what you want? Actually standardization is what single-pay achieves, along with universal budgets to really keep costs down.
    “3) health & wellness – personal responsibility involved here.”
    Is that it? Just say No? Are you prepared to completely overhaul our national food policy away from subsidized corn (which is also subsidized meat and subsidized HFCS), advertizing junk food to children, instituting a calorie tax, regulating the amount of sugar in food, etc.?

  82. The federal government should never have been in the business of direct unearned benefits for anyone. Period. It is not sustainable when the benefit is based on entitlement rather than budget. Who will be the last sucker working to carry everyone else?
    As for “evil”, when a president promises one thing and clearly intends to deliver something else, something intrusive for the sake of intrusion, it is evil.

  83. Thank goodness for Sarah Palin, protecting us from the dark forces of the communists! I heard they are going to hunt down everyone over 72 and shoot em. In the night. Then haul the bodies off and bury them in secret graves, after saying some satanic verses of some sort! Can you believe that? Also, doctors will be roped into literal chain gangs, in order to keep em in the socialized medicine, cause why else would they work? So if you even ever get to see another nurse or doctor in your entire life, they’d literally be chained in the office, and I guess the chain would be hidden, like with a towel or something, so you wouldn’t see it.

  84. For all those people screaming just say NO!! Does this mean we should stop medicare and Medicaid so we can truly get government out of health insurance? What your saying is we have the best health care system in the world so why do we need any government intervention right? People on Medicare and Medicaid would be much better of with private health insurance right? So I will stand with that get rid of Medicare and Medicaid and the taxes I would save from helping fund them I’ll put toward a great private plan..well until I get sick and need insurance.

  85. I am glad to see this on your site. Yes, people should be free to hold their own opinions. Personally, I see Palin’s statements as validating her own evil. She is a manipulative liar, and reveals herself clearly to anyone with a functioning brain. She talks as though Obama’s health care reform will bring about the circumstances which already exist under the current evil system.
    But for those against reform, another option should be entertained. The option of letting the market decide. But there is only one way to do that, and it involves eliminating medical insurance entirely and requiring payment from everyone. I can’t think of a greater evil than the current team of medical insurers, pharma and certain physicians who have become marketers for Big Pharma instead of healers and artists, as were the real doctors of old.

  86. Give them all Allscripts computers to perform CER on politicians while they wave to Russia.

  87. The screamers and the shriekers that are disrupting the town-hall meetings are nothing but pathetic vermin. I’ve seen toddlers with more self-control. It seems to me that there must be something aside from the proposal of a public health insurance option that is motivating their nasty little tantrums. After all, what could be more benign than a public insurance plan that merely competes with existing private insurance companies. If the government is as inept as the shriekers claim, no one will sign on for the public plan. End of story. My contention is that the shriekers hatred of the public option is actually rather thinly disguised hatred of Mr. Obama, himself. Having lived for many years in the backwoods state of Kansas and having seen modern conservatism from up close, I have no doubt that many of the shriekers have some interesting ideas, so to speak, regarding race. That, I think, is what is actually behind the emotion, not the extremely benign proposals for health insurance reform put forward by the administration.

  88. Wow! What an interesting comments thread. I didn’t know so many people were so badly informed. ABC evening news just did little “Fact Check” item totally discrediting Palin’s embarrassing remarks along with those of the whole euthanasia meme set in motion by Betsy McCaughey months ago. It has become one the most durable urban myths of the year.
    For those of us trying to keep H.R.3200 from being torn to shreds there is a lot of work to do.

  89. Now I get it!
    It: The GOP strategy.
    Reasoning:
    Palin has some appeal to their battered constituency.
    Strategy:
    They make her quit as governor of Alaska so that she can continue, full time, the dirty war against President Obama.
    She will irrationally attack the health care reform and any other bill out there that helps improve the life of the Americans!
    That’s it! That’s their strategy. Poor fellows.
    Thanks,
    The EHR Guy

  90. Actuary,
    I agree with all 3 of your points. You left out one crucial component of cost: patient choice in advocating for expensive care in which they do not share the costs. Maybe this is subsumed under your first point about tort reform. For example, one might argue that with tort reform, the physician can “just say no” and if the denial is reasonable, they will not be held accountable for the occasional, but inevitable, bad outcome.
    What tort reform alone doesn’t account for is the “Zagat-ization of Healthcare”. This is where patients write complaint letters and flame their care-givers in Press-Ganey surveys and administration comes down on care-providers for doing so. Expose the costs to the consumer, both cognitively and materially, and let them decide. If it’s that important to them to have a test deemed to be of low yield, let them pay for it. Take the physicians out of the role of some tawdry customer relations manager shilling for high ratings. The physician’s job is to be professional, polite, and accurate as possible.

  91. Matthew put this on to “prove” that those opposed to “government run” health care must be fools, because we all know Sarah Palin is generally known as an idiot.
    Fact is Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, and Barney Frank are not highly regarded by us independents either.
    Insurance companies have offered up pre-existing conditions (with a mandate), so now everyone can get insurance – and those who can’t afford it can get tax breaks.
    Now, to get to the real issue of cost….
    1) tort reform – study out today showed $210B/yr on unnecesary tests, many to avoid lawsuits (some to add income due to procedure-based reimbursement systems).
    2) insurance claim reform – let us have some standardization so providers don’t have to spend Billions sorting through the various forms.
    3) health & wellness – personal responsibility involved here.
    anybody care to comment?

  92. Rob M.D.,
    You make several good points about addressing particular pain points in the current system leading to waste and inappropriate utilization. Many of these should take place.
    I don’t see how government as an insurer equates to “government run health care”. If the government is so inefficient, it will fail in the market place. Of course, what will really happen is that government sponsored plans, at 2% overhead costs, will out compete private insurers for basic services. Private insurers will experience a drastic reduction in revenues and maybe the same, or higher, profits as they provide premium service to supplement government insurance — kind of like what Swiss Life provides now to millions of Europeans. Doctors will compete for patients with premium coverage patients — again, as they do in Europe. People who can’t afford “premium coverage” will have basic coverage in contrast to the nothing that they have now. This nothing coverage leads to oodles of unreimbursed care that drags down hospital systems. Thousands of overpaid insurance company middle managers and executives will get the axe and roam the streets for different professional positions. Heck, maybe they’ll work for the government.
    As for your points on Iraq, “ALL” did not support the misadventure, and MANY who are actually students of history and current events predicted the various paths of failure we could have marched down and ultimately did march down. The problem is that many of our representatives who gave Bush and Co. a free pass are not particularly bright or analytical. They are more worried about towing the line and genuflecting when their patriotism is questioned. That’s not a rewrite. That’s a catalog of the facts.

  93. Let me get this straight. Rationing is evil because it could reduce health care for the sick, elderly and disabled. So Sarah and the right want more free market.
    Oops. That won’t work. “Within the ideal free market, property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged solely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. By definition, buyers and sellers do not coerce each other, in the sense that they obtain each other’s property rights without the use of physical force, threat of physical force, or fraud, nor are they coerced by a third party (such as by government via transfer payments)” (wikipedia). The sick, elderly and disabled use more health care, so–absent regulation–the free market would demand that they pay more. Right?
    Therein lies the problem: healthcare is not and can never be a free market. Insurance–in private or public form–is a massive distortion of the free market since it eliminates any individual buying and selling decisions in healthcare. And if insurance didn’t exist, it would be worse than the mythical death panels Sarah describes because those who need care the most couldn’t afford it.
    Every country in the world rations care. But most are more explicit about it, which then permits actual discussions about the merits of the decision. In Britain, public decisions not to reimburse certain drugs have been challenged and in some cases overturned due to public pressure. In the US, we ration care so that small business employees, part-time employees, and the chronically ill who’ve lost their benefits don’t get the care they need. But when our citizens are denied coverage, can’t afford it, or are forced into bankruptcy, there is no appeal. If that’s not rationing, I’m not sure what to call it.
    The Republicans have set up a delicious strawman. We can’t afford Obamacare, but let’s not ration because rationing is evil. It would be nice if they tried to come up with an actual solution to a problem.

  94. I believe that healthcare is for everyone, and not, just for those who are deemed as worthy or prductive members of our society. I do believe we as a Nation can come up with a solution that allows healthcare for all through elimating waste and unnecessary treatments. What is left over from what we save can be utilized to care for those who need it and cannot afford it. Also, I believe those who can afford health insurance need to have the freedom from paying for other’s care.

  95. So, did the owner of this blog, who hasn’t been heard from, post this Palin statement in order to second it, or in order to hold it up to ridicule?
    The comments are split between those who support and oppose it.

  96. Alex, do you like re-writing history to your own ideology? Just did it. The war in Irag was stated by ALL Republicans and Democrats and Bush and the United Nations, etc., etc., to be important re: Nuclear Arms and their potential use from a dictator who was thought less than balanced. He violate 10 UN sanctions, through out the UN on-sites, proclaimed to others he had some arms of mass distruction (Kurds experienced it), etc.etc. Yes, there was a feeling and movement re: regeme change which paralled this behavior. No where can you document that either Bush nor Republicans referred to Irag and its leaders were related to 911. Stop your liberal re-write of history. Was it wise, No. Did ALL respond to poor “intelligence” Yes.
    Let me ask why Clinton after the Cole (sp?), after 2 other major embassay hits we took as Americans that he shopped short of taking out the proven terrorist?
    Re: the rest of your opinion, I agree to follow the money. Remember all inefficiencies and intermediaries is someone’s income. Whether it be Republicans who are only concerned re: the deficit (yes NOW and not before)–the cost that Obama says he will reduce from thin air.
    Pharma in 2002 made more profit than ALL HealthPlans in American (capitalization and profits) since 1944. Pharma is a BIG DOG and 80B to sell out to Obama was chump change.
    I would reverse market consolidation that has led to market leverage (not value) only.
    National Tort reform like MICRA
    Enforce for Pet’s Sake Stark and antitrust laws and put people in jail
    Invest in PCPs again (75/25) to correct our imbalance of capable docs to practice to the extent of their education, training, and comfort.
    Reallocate monies in system (Imaging/specialists) to build the Medical Homes
    Educate Americans that it is their behavior and not the delivery system that is making them ill (e.g. Obesity).
    Provide adequate safe net for those who cannot enter the private market–but not so robust (Ca) that it is better than any private plan and for free.
    In the mean time, if you believe in the Constitution, protect everyone’s individual liberties. Taxes are a gift from those with to those without. It should be appreciated, and not demanded.
    Just watch California if you wish to see the way of Washington DC but more corruption (Chicago Politics with intimidation–otherwise why have CZARs? accountable to no governmental agency). \
    Rob MD

  97. Now I know why they lost the Presidential race.
    During the campaign they set on a dirty war against who is now the President of the USA who focused on his strengths.
    Now they continue with their low level tacticts to induce fear based on falseties while we focus on a solution to a huge problem for the currently living Americans and our future generations.
    Thanks,
    The EHR Guy

  98. Dan M.
    You are absolutly right. Reform is all about not having to deal with the Medicare/Medicaid problems. This laughable and tyrannical reform is nothing more than a tax increase, this time on everyone under the guise of mandated “coverage”.
    The politicians need to deal with the rather small problem of a bankrupt Medicare before they try for the whole enchilada. This is all about delaying political pain. There is no need for universal coverage as packaged and sold by Obama,Inc. This is snake oil of the 21st century.

  99. Just wondering, in all this “anti-reform” mud slinging if anyone slinging mud has offered a viable idea to deal with the simple matters of Medicare Part A going cash flow negative and Medicare & Medicaid consuming such a large portion of the US budget that little else is possible if nothing is done?
    Public plan or no public plan, euthanasia and government funded abortion are all smokescreens that keep us from staying focused on these two issues. It’s as if success in killing reform is the goal. While you might not like the plan, “no reform” is a devastating 2nd place that someone, somewhere will have to address, eventually.
    Boring daily news coverage, yeah probably. But so what?
    Ugh.
    hcpropellerheads.blogspot.com

  100. These Republicans are using the same scare tactic, to promote fear in Americans the same way they duped American people into going to war with a country that had nothing to do with 911 terror attacks.
    When are American people going to stop listening to these people? These republicans feed and grow off of these doctors and pharmaceutical companies, and insurance groups who are clearly fighting for their lives.
    American people need to pay attention, a man once told me follow the money trail, and you will see the answer and motivation for stopping this national healthcare.
    Last night I heard some one say, why would people want to stop poor Americans from having basic healthcare?
    The plain fact of the matter is that we have been at war for almost 10 years, and the nation is mad as hell. It shows we have been on a witch-hunt on everyone from congressmen, to corporations, to bankers, to car manufacturers. Perhaps our anger has helped expose our nations corruption, and perhaps this was a good thing, but when we turn to our nations elderly, and poor without healthcare something’s terribly wrong.
    When we say screw those people and only think of ourselves, we are abandoning the great American hope for equality and freedom, and prosperity for all. Every citizen has the right to a dream in this country, and we are leaving our nations low income and poor without healthcare. Who are we? Barbarians?
    This plan could save $170 billion per year and we need that to come out of this recession, or more like depression. It makes me sick to hear just how bias, and self centered we are and have become on this issue. This has all come out of fear, the same republican fear the republican party used to get us into two wars, wars which no doubt caused this entire financial mess. The republicans are responsible for this healthcare mess, the gas hikes, and the electric Enron madness, the Wall Street crumble, and wounded soldiers, and veteran mess we have now to clean up.
    I ask Americans to follow the money trail, and don’t listen to these republicans who created this entire mess over fear. “You have nothing to fear but fear itself. ”
    We have a system of government where we can legally vote; if this healthcare doesn’t work or needs to be modified trust in ourselves as decent Americans to change it.

  101. Kent: get a grip. It is the middle of the country that is rejecting not only the particulars of may I say a less than transparent yet to be released committee bill (an Obama promise again unfullfilled) but more so the arrogance, the audacity of calling opposing opinions those of mobs, and I must not go on–my head hurts. The power relinquished to the government and the obvious current market dynamics that will channel Americans to a Public plan are indisputable. If we want a single payer/governmental plan-sell it to the people. If we want our system to work better, deconsolidate payers, hospitals, and some providers to increase competition. Get rid of the CON (hsopitals license to steal), Federal Tort reform would help and make accreditation of diagnostic centers manditory. Give the vulnerable a reasonable “thin” preventive plan + catestrophic benefits during this economic downturn that is only going to worsen when inflation hits. 70% increases in hospitals getting from demonized payers in Calif. because they have a chain of 23 facilities is BAD MEDICINE. Same with payers. A. Smith would be ashamed to call this a free market and so would Stark (if he is thinking these days).
    Rob MD

  102. Igor Marxomarxovich,
    Very mature. Any further juvenile musings? Be a real conservative and learn how to think critically. There is a lot to criticize about the proposed reform. Please participate in the discussion. It requires more than an 8th grade reading level, but I am fairly certain you are up to it.

  103. In summary: why I left the Republican Party. Leaders in the Modern Republican Party cater its message for superstitious fools, self-proclaimed uber patriots who are more likely to tear down this country than protect it, and moral absolutists.
    There is so much to criticize about the proposed health care reform (i.e., how the economics may lead to even more patients unable to find physicians willing to see them for low reimbursement as currently happens to many Medicare patients) that to stoop to this sort of puerile rhetoric is pathetic for any purported leader. A couple of people here spout off about “freedoms” and the sanctity of the market. Let’s be clear: 95% of current Republican diehards wouldn’t know a market distortion if it smacked them in the face. From agricultural subsidies, to oil/energy subsidies, to subsidization of driving over other forms of transportation, the list of government handouts that people in the Modern Republican Party regularly gobble up are never on their radar.
    It’s all about inane slogans.

  104. I am saddened that Palin’s comments undercut the credibility conservatives need to foster good debate on health care. It is too important an issue not to have a balanced discussion. However, the recent conservative attacks, including Palin’s, come across only as partisan mud-slinging. The facts are completely different from the assertions. With non-partisan fact-check articles now appearing (like the article in today’s LA Times, for example) the conservative voice may soon be marginalized and ignored. Too bad.

  105. Even as a supporter of many Republican policies I must say this rhetoric is irresponsible and inflammatory. Why do people insist on dumbing down the debate? Turning a complex policy problem into a simplified, emotional attack is not what I want from a leader – in any party.

  106. Using terms like “is she real” and “dumb” and Peter maligning the Republicans who have not picked her is beneath you all. I recall the physicians in Germany in the early 1030’s were responsible for “a great social transformation” leading to euthenasis of young,mentally impaired, and the infirmed. They too had a panel sanctioning their actions. Power to government corrupts and our government is clueless re: healthcare as they are about every failed national program except the military (and it needs help too). The second amendment allows her to speak–let her do so and argue the issue–characterizations are uncoming and unfruitful. There are many who support what she has said, that should give you a second of pause from your liberal ivory towers. Insurance plans have never nor do they do now LINDA review benefits by PHYSICIANS according to value of life. Years adjusted life value is great for cat lovers and liberals (and Nazi’s), but not our society. Sure, restrictions and rationing of benefits must occur in this finite world with Americans having infinite demands–many legislated by Congress. Sam Clemens once said, “If I were an idiot.” “Or a member of Congress.” “Oh but I speak twice!” Where is the legitimate reform that either creates a truly free market in medicine or a government single payer with employees determining benefits (possibly value based on age/sex/disease burden/etc) that HAS been discussed and sets prices for all and has all the control.And where is the fundamental financial reform–absent from action. This hybrid model we have is not sustainable and the OIG and FTC have allowed antitrust to distroy competition.
    We alwys need to differentiate our population health from health care delivery since Culture (behavior) + genetic and gestational endowments are likely by many biostaticians produce 80%+ of the health of the population. We are talking about insurance (delivery of care not health) for the few-possibly 20M who can’t afford it–there are simplier ways to fill this gap and enormously less expensive. And might I add, not involved with Qaly or social designing. Americans don’t want it and they are right.
    Rob M.D.

  107. Sarah speaks without intelligence. If attempting to gain solutions to our healthcare is “evil” then let it be. Rather look at this as a first attempt by this administration to attack what is a very long process to help all Americans gain assistance with their health coverage. Maybe the plan has its flaws now but if we keep pounding it out there “could” be a real resolution here. That is if idiots like Sarah don’t place her witch hunt tactics over it all.

  108. Sarah Palin is totally correct. The governemnt will decide what you get and when and if you get it at all. The poor have the opportunity to advance, unless there is no chance of advancing your own cause; i.e. no point in trying because the government will take it all, along with any motivation to succeed.
    People have choices in healthcare, including not to buy it if they do not want it.
    After healthcare comes housing? The homeless will be assigned your spare bedroom?
    President Borg Obama will assimilate all, and you will service him.

  109. Joe, I think this is being posted because Matt knows his readers are informed.
    I believe the expectation is we will immediately see the significance of a major party’s most recent Vice-Presidential candidate spouting off the most vile and inflammatory conspiratorial rants about healthcare reform.
    There is no loyal opposition–there is an out-of-power party whose incompetent governance created its current impotence. Instead of saying “gosh, maybe our philosophy and policies were wrong,” the party has descended into madness, and is convinced the path back to power involves ginning up the most unhinged and destructive elements of our body politic.
    The Republican party’s vice-presidential candidate is accusing the President of trying to create “death panels.” It’s beyond insane.
    But it’s where the debate is now. And I’m sorry, but that has terrible implications for the kind of bill that Democrats can pass. It makes it MUCH harder to responsibly govern.

  110. Why are you just posting the text of the Governor’s comments? I find this blog to generally be a good source of information on the healthcare debate. The intent of Ms. Palin’s commentary is not to further the debate, but to scare people who don’t have the time or inclination to learn about the nuances for themselves. As a regular reader, I frequently find myself in agreement with some articles and disagreement with others – and that is why I point my browser to your site nearly every day. But this is not helpful nor constructive and it allows no room for a reasoned debate. It does not belong on your blog, unless as an opportunity for you to correct the mis-statements and question the intent of those who would use words like “evil” in a reasoned debate about the role of government in health care.

  111. And what have you done to alleviate the plight of the uninsured and overpaying insured in this country? I consider your comments mean spirited, evil and without merit. Go back to being the lipstick wearing soccer Mom that you are qualified to be. Nothing more. Nothing less. Frankly, with your recent resignation, you shouldn’t even have the gual to hurl insults! Go hide!

  112. “…so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care.”
    Gee Sarah, I guess low wage employees and low profit small business have already been deemed by the private sector to have too little, “productivity in society” to be able to afford healthcare coverage.
    Matt, you should have put this in the “Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest” discussion. Seems the Republicans CAN pick someone more stupid than Bush.

  113. Amen, Sarah Palin! Wake Up America! This health plan is evil. I like my freedom to choose to have insurance or not and do NOT wish to pay for anyone else’s. Too much gov. involvement means less freedoms until we have no freedoms left at all.

  114. That is downright wrong and misleading. Gov Pallin should know that insurance companies upon time do the same. Secondly, one can also buy supplemental insurance to cover for what is beyond the public option.
    It is morally reprehensible to argue about saving 1 person while we are letting 100s suffer.
    Let us do politics in some other areas.
    rgds
    ravi
    blogs.biproinc.com/healthcare
    http://www.biproinc.com

  115. Is this woman for real? How could a supposedly smart and knowledgeable person ever make these types of comments? There really is something very wrong with her and hopefully as she continues to weild her pen and open her mouth EVERYONE will see that she is the one with the problems.

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