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PODCAST/TECH: Interview with the Cisco health care brain trust–Transcript

This is the transcript of my interview at HIMSS with Cisco’s health care team leaders Jeff Rideout & Frank Grant. The audio podcast is available here.

Matthew Holt:  This is Matthew Holt with The Health Care Blog. It’s another podcast from the HIMSS floor and today I have got the brains trust from Cisco’s Health Care Group, Jeff Rideout, who is the vice‑president and the medical director. He was formerly in the health plan world, and he’s been at Cisco, what, three years now?

Jeff Rideout:  Yes.

Matthew:  Ah, good guess. Jeff Rideout and Frank Grant who is the director of Healthcare Sales, who was roped into this at the last minute and didn’t know he was going to be involved, but anyway! So, we’ll pass the mike between us.For disclosure, as you guys know, I do a little bit of work for Cisco now and again. So it’s a company I like and I’m unlikely to say rude things about them. But the good news is that I don’t think there’s going to be anything rude to say about them, unlike some of the other people that I talk about on The Health Care Blog.So let’s start at the beginning. This is a question for you, Jeff. Why did Cisco decide that it wanted to get into health care, and why did they want to hire you in the first place?

Jeff:  Well, Cisco has been working with health care customers for 20 plus years. About three years ago, we were invited to join a White House council and give our thoughts on productivity and how technology could help, specifically in health care. I think that got the bug in the company. John Chambers (Cisco’s CEO) comes from a health care family. Both of his parents are physicians.So, from that point it was really, how do we make more of an impact like we have in other industries? That started the process, which eventually led to what we call a "health care vertical" that Frank and I lead. It is really a coordinated go‑to‑market effort for health care customers.

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HOSPITALS: These things happen By Paul Levy

Paul Levy is the President and CEO of Beth Israel Deconess Medical Center in Boston. Paul recently became the focus of much media attention when he decided to publish infection rates at his hospital, despite the fact that under Massachusetts law he is not yet required to do so.  For the last year and a half he has blogged about his experiences in an online journal, Running a Hospital, one of the few blogs we know of maintained by a senior hospital executive. Today Paul writes about some of the reasons he decided to publish data on central line infection rates and the (adverse) reaction his decision stirred up among competitors in Boston.

These things happen … I was reminded of this by our Chief of Medicine. In the movie, "It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World," Ethel Merman, playing Mrs. Marcus, says:

Now
what kind of an attitude is that, ‘these things happen?’ They only
happen because this whole country is just full of people who, when
these things happen, they just say ‘these things happen,’ and that’s
why they happen! We gotta have control of what happens to us."

I am struck by the relevance of this to running a hospital.

Several
years ago, we had that attitude in our hospital with regard to certain
types of medical outcomes. For example, we were content with our level
of central line infections because we were below the national average.
After all, these things happen. Then our chiefs of medicine and surgery
said, "No, they don’t have to happen. When they happen, people die. We
are going to insist that we achieve zero central line infections." And
then they got to work. As I have noted below, it is not an easy problem
to solve, but it is worth the effort, and you can improve.
One way to encourage organizational improvement is to publicize the results of your program. I have done that below
for our hospital, and I have made the suggestion that others in the
city could do the same. As I noted, I did not make the suggestion for
competitive purposes — after all, I don’t know if our numbers are
better or worse than those of other hospitals — but because public
exposure of all our efforts will drive all of us to do better. Also, it
will build, rather than erode, public confidence in the academic
medical centers in our city.

The
response, as you have seen from the press reports, ranges from simple
recalcitrance to technically sophistic arguments about comparability of
data. Please, does anyone argue that the goal should not be zero? If it
is zero, it does not matter whether the data is measured in cases per
thousand patient-days, cases per thousand catheter-days, or just the
raw number of cases.

We all
keep track of these numbers in some form or another. We could easily
post them in real time voluntarily on a website maintained by the state
or an insurance company, along with our own explanations of how and
what we measure. (And perhaps, over time, we will agree on what single
metric is most useful.)

People can and will understand this. They already spend hours on the Internet
reading medical websites. Why do we give them so little credit? It will
demonstrate to the public that we care about this problem, and will
show our individual progress towards our ultimate goal.

Finally,
it will enhance the reputation and credibility of all of the academic
medical centers, two aspects of our character that will be more and
more under siege because of the broader problems of the health care system.

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PODCAST/TECH: Understanding RFID tracking

This is the transcript of the Podcast from last week with Ken Lynch of Pango, a company playing in the location tracking space.  If you read this, you should understand a little more about how complex it all is!

Matthew Holt:  It’s Matthew Holt, with The Health Care Blog. And one of my last interviews of the day today, on Tuesday, which is the second day of HIMSS. I’m with Ken Lynch; Ken is in marketing at Pango. And Pango is in the RFID asset location and tracking business. They make little tags, you’ll see the photo on this site, and various other things. And the more I’ve looked at this business, the more complex it’s become. Because there are so many different parts in the application layer, the middle ware, the tags themselves. And so many people competing and cooperating in the system that I’m already confused. But that is why I’ve got Ken here, he’s going to explain to us today what it all works out, what Pango does, and what its various competitors and corporation partners do. So Ken, thanks for talking to me.

Ken Lynch:  My pleasure.

Matthew:  All right, so let’s start at the beginning. What does Pango do within the world of asset tracking? And whom do you work with, and what other parts do you need?

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HEALTH PLANS/POLICY: Sierra– a case study of needed insurance reforms

Now and again there’s a real world case that reminds you why the only solution for keeping private health plans is managed competition, with the emphasis on managed. Remember as you read this story that Alain Enthoven always said that there should be community rating, with standardized benefits between plans and risk adjustment between them to override the impact of chance-driven uneven risk selection.

So the story (hat-tip to Rick Byrne for this) begins with Part D, which allows significant disparity in benefits between plans—something that it’s claimed causes few problems for enrollees. What happens next is that one plan with particularly rich benefits finds that it is adversely selected against. But this doesn’t become clear until late in 2006. Meanwhile Sierra Health Services, a Nevada based for-profit HMO with a pretty good record at cost containment, thinks that it can launch a PDP (stand alone drug plan) that covers the donut hole and has rich benefits. It has to file the paper-work by mid-2006, it charges a hefty premium and it waits for the money to roll in. 42,000 seniors sign up.

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POLICY: Massachusetts Health Plan Update By Eric Novack

Those of following along with the attempts to provide comprehensive health insurance under current market conditions in Massachusetts under the ‘Connector’ concept, are aware that former Governor Romney and the legislature was aiming for an average policy to cost $200 per month. Never mind that the average policy up to this point in Massachusetts was over about $420 per month.

Well, Governor Romney is out and the first round of bids came in, averaging $380 per month. Shocking.

So new Governor Patrick and the health commission sent the insurers back to the drawing board to see what round 2 would bring, even considering proposals that might limit or exclude prescription drugs.

Last week, the Governor and the Boston Globe presented a breakthrough.  To read the headlines, you would think that success had been achieved.

But wait, get to paragraph 10. The average plan now is $305 per month.  A significant improvement, to be sure, but hardly what Partners Health Care CEO called being “back in the ballpark”.  The $305 rate is still 50% higher than what was intended, and we really do not know exactly what restrictions are being placed to get the lower rates.  And just wait until the purchasers of the new plans start bumping into the restrictions.

Other criticisms about the plan have been chronicled here and elsewhere before and again.

Prediction: By New Year’s 2008, few will be happy to claim ownership of the Massachusetts Health Plan—other than the appointed bureaucrats and their minions.

POLICY/QUALITY/HOSPITALS: Keynsian reporting trumps Smith-ian invisibilty

Michael Cannon at Cato picks up on David Leonhardt’s NYT article about error/process reporting in hospitals and suggests that there’s no need for regulation, as the market is getting us there already.

Hmm… methinks Michael underestimates what one economist he does approve of suggests identifies as a major problem. People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices” He may think that this has only been going on since 2002 or thereabouts but Codman was trying and failing to get transparency in hospitals in 1910! If we’re going to wait for the industry to really do this by itself to respond to Smith’s invisible hand, then as an economist Michael probably doesn’t have quite such a high regard for once said, in the long run, we are all dead!. Codman certainly has been pushing up daisies for a more than 60 years.

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